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One more things, some of these symptoms may also be due to Colchicine. I have not taken Colchicine in last one and half month, and the night excessive urination urge and the tiredness has improved a lot after I stopped taking Colchicine.
rucyrius said:
I'm on my third week of 300 mg allopurinol .. and i was wondering if anyone else during start up had a few of the same symptoms i'm getting… one is sleepiness , sleep heavy at night and kind of tired in the day .. another is excessive thirst and urination… i got up 4 times last night and also during the day… other than that my numbers are down to around 4.7 … my feet feel good and no pain.. still taking colchicine for one more week..
john
Yes, I had the symptoms of tiredness, heavy eyes, excessive sleep, excessive thrust etc. in the first few weeks. They allmost went away over a period of time. I still get a bit heavy eyes at times but that is the drowsiness effect though it is much reduced and no more a nuisance. The sleep is back to normal and so is thrust. I used to have excessive urination but since last one month, that has also gone down. I take 1 ltr of water within 3 hrs before I sleep and I used to get up twice…now a days it is once and sometimes, none. I do feel a bit of dry mouth and thirst when I getup in th morning and gallop down 1/2 ltr bottle…that makes me feel so good.
I guess, the body adjusts over a period of time and all these symptoms either go away or the mind does not feel them awkward any more.
cjeezy said:
I guess I should have said diastolic 68-74 and systolic was around 120-130
If the above readings are not considered normal, I was born with high BP then
…I am really surprised how some one can say 84 diastolic as high BP. And in my visits to so many doctors in my life time, no one ever said 84 as high. Now I am 47 yrs young but even when I was 25 years, my readings were always near 90 at doctors clinic and no one ever said it was high….though they said keep a watch but it has been like that for more than 20 yrs that I remember…..I went thru a series of tests including Treadmill and ECHO…all were normal….
Even my current doctor says that in the clinical environment, BP of a lot of patients go up…besides, the pain and infection causes BP to go up…that's why people in gout pain( at time of pain) or any other pain will have high BP…same is true for BP before surgery. You walk into doctors clininc from parking lot and the nurse immediatly takes the BP as you walk in..it would be high….I think, thinking too much into few minor raised BP readings will cause more problems.
I still clearly remember that at age of 25, when I visited the doctor 2-3 times in a month as my readings were around 125-130/85-90, he told me clearly – You are absolutely OK at this time but if you will keep on getting anxious and nervous about it, you will for sure get BP and many other problems sooner than your age – and he was absolutely right….
I am an example of “White Coat Syndrome”. Whenever I visit a doctor, my first BP reading is 140-155 / 90-100. My second reading taken within 5 minutes of first one improves dramatically, generally 125-140 / 85-90…..and if my diagnostics with doctors are satisfactory, the reading drops to 110-125 / 70-80.
It is a challenge for me when I visit a new doctor and tell to take my BP twice. They do not understand it at first. After few visits, they realize my point and then they do not care about my first reading.
Another known fact is that those who have WCS generally also suffer from Anxiety. This is another loop as anxiety can cause higher BP. I have suffered from anxiety a lot as I reported in another post earlier. The root cause of a lot of these things is Anxiety e.g. thinking too much about own body and own symptoms. WCS is also anxiety about BP being out of control or anticipation of something wrong. The moment that feel of something wrong goes away, the BP drops.
Once I got my head struck against a wall and thought something wrong. The whole night I had dizziness and uneasy feeling. Next day at doctor's clinic, the BP was 170 /105. After the tests performed on head( CAT scan and EEG) showed everything fine, the BP dropped back to 115/72.
So, I would suggest before starting on any BP medication, make it sure you actually have BP problem. BP medications are another loop like Allopurinol….once you start them, it is very difficult to get out of them.
In my Gout episode, Mortin 800 mg dosage 4 times a day started higher BP in my case and I saw my BP going up to 190/110 one day as I was taking the reading every 2 minutes. I went to emergency room and was prescribed Tenormine(it is a Beta Blocker) 25 mg twice a day and Ativan .5 mg 3 times a day to control anxiety.
Ativan made situation worse and for the first time in my life, I showed enough courage to get out of the loop of Ativan( Not taking it anymore). Tenormine is also reduced now to once a day. I do not know if it makes Gout worse though the doctor told me that it has no effect on Gout.
My own guess is that your BP is most likely due to Anxiety induced WCS.
Hi vegetarianGuy,
I have gone through more( and still going through( than 75% of similar stuff that you are going through now.
I will write more details later but only wanted to tell you that though they told me similar arthritis stroy, I have been able to reduce my pain to a large extent and walk much better now.
fatdom said:
Also I have been suffering from depression (I personally think this is due to the extensive Indomethacin usage during the early stages of taking allopurinol as this drug has always had a profound effect on my central nervous system; dizziness, fatigue, confusion etc.). I find if I take any NSAIDs then the depression/anxiety gets worse but I feel I need to to alleviate the very unpleasant symptoms from the Allopurinol.
I had similar symptoms of dizziness, confusion, fatigue etc. and I reported them in many posts earlier. I always thought that they were because of Allopurinol but most likely I was wrong. I was also taking Ativan to cure Anxiety symptoms, which were caused due to high dosage of Ibuprofen. Looks like, the body was reacting by showing symptoms of dizziness and confusion as a way of asking more dose of Ativan. It is very common to get dependent on these medications and the body demands it by showing these symptoms.
I eventually took a bold step of tapering down and then stopping Ativan. I have not taken any anti anxiety drug in last 10 weeks. I use to get dizziness, confusion, out of balance and other anxiety symptoms as withdrawl effects but I somehow sustained them.
For last 5 weeks or so, all these symptoms have almost disappeared and now I do not have dizziness or confusion problems.
I WAS UNNECESSARY BLAMING ALLOPURINOL WHILE THE CORE REASON WAS ANXIETY AND ANXIETY MEDICATION.
The worst problem with anxiety is acceptance of the fact that it is anxiety and it is not easy to come out of it.
It is possible that your symptoms may not be due to Allopurinol at all, like it was in my case, though I always wrongly thought Allopurinol to be the culprit.
Indomethacin never worked for me….It reduced the pain by 50-60% but no effect on swelling. Colichicine was effective and it reduced the pain and swelling both within taking 2 tabs. It still never made my toe free.
I tried a lot by diet control with very low purine food, no hard drinks with heavy intakes of Cherry, Strawberry, Celery and exercise, nothing really worked. It just kept pushing the period of agony and causing occasional flareups…..followed by more control….it was causing more problems for me and family than helping.
The main improvement happened after I was on 300 mg Allopurinol for about a month and the SUA levels were near 4.
My Allopurinol was started when I still had swelling and some pain as it was not going away. In my case, it did not cause any flare up of gout, rather it improved it dramatically.
Great to know that you are under 4 of SUA now….I am sure it will help resolve the things even faster.
I also do get pain at times but it is more due to foot positioning as my souter side on the small toe side is taking more load and that is causing some balancing issue and sending pain waves. The pain in the toe per se is not there unless I pull it a lot upward, probably take it beyond its limit. My current toe movement is back to normal( 90% plus normal).
I tried your test of pressing on the area. I do not see any white patches or feel anything unusual under the skin.
cjeezy said:
I guess then from my assumption then, the kidney problems caused from gout are mostly the over production or under excretion of UA…which does not necessarily lead to other problems if controlled (since you're treating the problem in esssence).
I guess sometimes it is a vicious cycle. In case of my friend, he had high SUA levels, and he was drinking less water due to nature of his job. This caused Kidney stones. The kidney stones were so many that it resulted in poor kidney function, which in turn caused more SUA levels and ultimately Gout attacks on even moderate purine rich foods. He was not able to eat even a bowl of spinach or cauliflower as that would trigger the gout. Meat tasting was prohibited for him and he was eating rice most of the time as wheat would cause him Gout pain.
He used to tell me all that but I never understood as I was not suffering from Gout at that time and for anyone not knowing gout pains, it is very difficult to understand the miseries of gout.
After getting rid of Kidney stones, he can eat whatever. I do not know how his SUA levels are now but he has almost forgot about Gout. He had his kidney stones removed early 2009.
cjeezy said:
Yikes! Well hopefully AP therapy will eventually shrink it to some degree in the long term
cjeezy,
The first thing I did after reading your post is removed my shoe and socks and checked the joint. Well, I am happy to inform that there is no scope for pulling the skin tight as it is already full tight. When I just try my best by overdoing it, only thing I see is getting it pink in color like you pull skin from anywhere on the body.
The right joint where I had the attack now seems almost same size as the left joint( 90%). If the left joint did not get swollen, I guess the right joint has got to its almost normal position.
IMPORTANT THING TO NOTE HERE IS THAT I USED TO HAVE ABOUT HALF AN INCH LOOSE SKIN ROUND SPOT(like a penny coin) ON THE TOE BUNION JOINT WHERE I COULD ALWAYS FEEL SOME LIQUID KIND STUFF BENEATH THOUGH SKIN WAS RED /PURPLE IN COLOR. THE JOINT WAS ALSO SWOLLEN AND BIGGER THAN THE LEFT JOINT. THAT IS FEW MONTHS BACK BEFORE I STARTED ALLOP.
I HAVE SEEN GETTING IT BACK TO NORMAL AND SINCE LAST 4 WEEKS OR SO, THE 1/2 INCH PATCH HAS DISAPPEARED ALTOGETHER( I am poorer by a penny at-least) AND THE SKIN HAS BECOME VERY TIGHT ON THE JOINT WHILE THE SWELLING HAS ALL DISAPPEARED. THERE IS NO GLIMPSE OF THE LOOSE SKIN PATCH ANYMORE.
Zip,
Do you think I had some form of Tophi or crystals under the skin that have got dissolved mostly with Allop treatment? Or may be it was swelling due to toe injury which has since recovered?
By the way, I checked my SUA levels yesterday after almost 2 weeks…the values were 3.7, 3.2 and 3.7. I checked it 3 times to get the average.
I can probably assume my SUA levels below 4 most of the time.
What you need to know is your Serum Uric Acid level and if it is high, lower it by taking Allopurinol or some other similar medication after you know why your SUA levels are high.
Ibuprofen helps only till a point, Colchicine is generally better suited for gout pain( if you are able to take it without side effects. Im my case ibuprofen prescription dose of 800 mg had more side effects than Colchicine).
You can find more details on this forum on Uric Acid numbers, Allopurinol and Colchicine.
My experience is that non medication way of managing Gout has limited success. Once you are on the right medication, you will be in much better shape.
Hang in there. It took 2 months in my case to diagnose it was gout as I had toe injury which triggered all this stuff. I kept on getting the toe pain and the swelling never went away. After I started Allopurinol and Colchicine, the things improved dramatically.
My doctor ordered kidney and liver tests twice at a gap of 2 months after I started allopurinol. The kidney test includes BUN, Serum Electolytes(Sodium, Potassium, Chloride and CO2), Calcium Serum, Creatine Serum with GFR etc.
All the tests were normal in my case.
As I said before, I am slim, under 160 Lb at 5'9″. And all my liver and Kidney tests are normal…Still got gout. There is more to puzzle than this.
By the way, one of my friend used to get gout a lot and was not able to eat even a Mac Burger. He had Kidney stones, got operated and got rid of stones. Since then, all his Gout symptoms have disappeared.
$350 to $400 seems too high for SUA test. You can get it done in just $20 in any good lab (even without insurance). I have used LabCorp many times and they charge $19 per SUA test and the results are available online in a day mostly. My regular hospital will charge $20 without doctor's slip and nothing with a doctor's slip.
I had my first gout attack 10 years back with fever and chills, which lasted couple of days. I took Ibuprofen for fever and pain.
My second gout attack was this year but no fever or chill this time.
hansinnm said:
zip2play's recipe…
Thus, once you have gout you can never return to non-goutedness
.
Actually 100% plus true…Even a re-birth or reincarnation would not help….the genes will get passed on to new soul that would trigger gout…So, it is birth after birth…once you have it…it is for ever…..till eternity I guess……
I tried Celery and many other things like Bing Cherry, Strawberry and other similar items…None worked for me….Like Zip2Play always say – Allopurinol works and it had worked for me so far. For me, it was waste of time and money and even more importantly, getting frustrated in trying all other stuff…nothing worked till I started Allopurinol and the Physio of my foot.
It is interesting to see how the Colchcine is used and how it works on different people.
In my case, I never took more than 2 tabs a day, which was also limited use like for 5-10 days and then 1 tab after that. Never 2 tabs together, always am and pm dose.
I found that the swelling was gone by 50% by second tab and 75 % by day 2. The pain improved substantially by second day with no need of any other pain killer after second day.
I did not have any significant stomach problem as probably the dosage was never too high.
One good thing about Colchcine, even 1 tab a day was very helpful to keep the gout attack away.
In my opinion, continuing on a small dose of 1 to 2 tabs a day for 1-2 months helps a lot…it helped me for sure.
cjeezy said:
GoutPal said:
It begs the question – should we aim to be skinny (i.e. socially, but not medically, underweight), knowing it gives a lower risk of gout?
Good question, although I have gout and am skinny- 6 ft 180lbs with 12% body fat…so I'm thinking if its genetics you're screwed no matter what! lol
5 ft 9 inches and 158 lbs….still got gout….Are we in exception list?
I have taken Allopurinol for 5 months now. Started with 150 mg and SUA levels of 9.2 Built up the dose to 300 mg in 2 months and got my SUA levels down to range of 3.2 to 4.3( average value of 3.7). I am on Allop 300 mg for 3 months now. I also took Colchicine 1 tab a day for first 2 months and then tapered it down to 1 tab alt day and then stopped it a month back.
So, my reduction in SUA has been drastic, from 9.2 to 3.7….but no gout flares on Allopurinol till date.
I do not know how it works but I guess some people get gout flares with change in SUA levels much more than others.
My SUA levels are in range of 3.5 to 4.5, and I have also ventured out into eating some forbidden stuff in last one month, but in moderation. I just try not to overload myself with all forbidden stuff and as Keith has written in one of the post, I try to balance out my diet.
Have tasted wine and scotch on few occasions.
So far, it has not altered my SUA levels and not caused any harm.
You can try the following link –
I am using UASure and there are many more on this site who are using this kit. It is very easy to use. The results are accurate though it requires practice for correct blood sample.
I was suspected of gout as Colchicine was helping though I never took more than 2 tabs a day and my SUA level was 9.2. I never had typical gout pain and it was over a period of few days that the pain got set into the affected foot. The whole episode started with my toe stubbing and fracture.
I have taken treatment for gout as well as fracture. Currently, I am on 300 mg Allopurinol, my SUA levels around 4 and physiotherapy for toe injury.
I do not have 24 hrs pain, I get pain in the toe when I walk in certain positions and the injured / gouty foot positioning is not as correct as the other foot, which makes my walking difficult. Overall, my main struggle is going on with the foot as the load is unevenly distributed, which cause me pains. I am also not able to wear any shoe that I was wearing before the gout / injury to the foot.
It is 7 months since it started and it is makes me depressed at times as will it ever be cured, but I am hopeful.
Did you check your blood sugar levels? High blood sugar can reduce the blood flow to feet and turn them blue in addition to making them swollen and painful.
My toothache is from the tooth that has a lot of decay and is half already lost. So, there are roots and small portion of it( it is actually one of the wisdom tooth, ironically I had it rotten)
that is causing this pain.I was going to get it extracted last year but than ran into some family tragedy which took many months to get through and help the family, and before I can get back to normal things, got into this Toe injury and gout.
Tooth was hurting again on Saturday with trobbing pain and that's why I showed it to the dentist. I have taken Ibuprofen for last 3 days and the pain is now contained, recovered almost 90% . I have reduced the Ibuprofen dose today and if the pain does not come back, I may wait for some more time before the extraction. if the pain returns, no other choice I guess.
odo said:
Good you're getting such reliable results Utu, practice obviously makes perfect. Have you ever tried re-testing immediately; surely that would be a simple method of checking for accuracy?
Yes, I re-tested immediately on many occasions. Actually, earlier I used to take 2 readings at the same time, and one day I even did 3 at the same time. Many times, the readings were just the same or almost same, like 4.0 and 4.1. However, there were occasions when the difference was larger more like 3.5 and 4.0.
But these variations are possible. I have 2 medical insurances, one from my employer and one from my wife. So, at any point of time, I generally have at-least one lab test request available to me. Once I had 2 lab requests and took lab test at 2 different labs at almost same time( both of them are top most labs in USA) – within a gap of 15 minutes. The results were 3.9 and 4.3.
So, even the labs can have the variations.
I think, the important thing is that the results are as expected / within the expected range. For me, if the results are in the range of 3.5 to 4.5, I am happy as I expect them to be within that range. Slight variations would always be there. I do get some readings like 3.0 and 4.9 but I ignore them. I have never measured more than 4.9.
I have got toothache for last 2 days and I went to the dentist today. He has prescribed me Azithromycin 500 mg day 1 and 250 mg a day for next 5 days.
I am currently taking 300 mg Allopurinol and Tenormine 25 mg for BP control.
I was taking Colchicine till recently but I stopped it few days back. My Colchicine dose has been 0.6 mg tab on Dec 3, Dec 6 and Dec 9, after which I have not taken any Colchicine. So, it is 3 tabs this month with last tab on Dec 9.
Is it safe to start Azithromycin now? I think, cjeezy has earlier reported some problems with Z-pack while he was taking Colchicine, though in my case I have stopped it 5 days back. I have not started taking Azithromycin yet.
I am not creating separate topic as it is related to antibiotics and gout (medication), which Dr Buff has already created.
I have been using SUA Sure Meter for 2 and 1/2 months now. I have got very consistent readings most of the times. I now almost know what the reading is likely to be as my SUA levels seem stable now. For example, I test it just before lunch and all the times, I get the readings in the range of 3.6 to 4.2 with most of the readings 3.8 to 4.1. I have also cross checked the values with lab results. They were all close e.g. home reading of 3.9 while lab of 4.3. Home reading of 3.7 and lab of 3.9 etc.
Once I was getting lot of twinges in the evening. I tested at home and got a value of 4.7( That is the highest value I got at home). I cross checked with lab test just 15 minutes apart and the value was 4.8 at lab. That proved that the meter seems reliable.
I tested it today afternoon again after 10 days. It was 3.8. The value 10 days back was 4.1 and a week before that 3.9. All the values are consistent.
I always wash my hands with soap and hot water. Keep my hand below the heart level, generally rest on my leg for about 10 seconds and then go for the piercing. I know by seeing the size of the drop if it was enough or not. I touch the drop at about 45 – 55 degree to the test slot and it flows and covers the slot fully. I make sure that the test spot is fully covered but remove the finger away as soon as the spot is covered with blood to avoid any overflow. The full drop is not to be transferred if the test spot is covered with lesser blood.
I am on 3rd box of the strips now, which means I have already tested it more than 50 times, and probably have got some better understanding of the droplet size. If for some reasons, the drop looks too small, I do not use it for test and go for another piercing.
I hope, it helps.
vegetarianGuy said:
Post edited 12:45 pm – December 10, 2009 by vegetarianGuy
I have been wearing canvas shoes as their soul is thin and very flexible. I can get on with daily activity but if I wear my older Addidas shoes whose soul is thicker then I have problems walking as pain on the toes increases noticeably. It's amazing how shoes I could wear all the time before are almost unusable now.
I can't agree more. I have said in one of my earlier post that one of the big challenge for me is shoe selection everyday morning. None of the shoes that I use to were before are of any use at this time. I am wearing 4x wide shoes with a supporting sleeve that relieves my pain in the toe. All other shoes give my toe immediate pain.
It is amazing. My doctors also tell me the same thing – some mechanical problem, not gout, though they agree gout was present in the initial stages. My pain point is also exactly the black spot on the toe you have shown in one of the pictures. When the toe is bent upward, it pains at that point.
On the days I have to wear a leather shoe for some urgent client meeting, it becomes a bigger challenge. I always carry extra 2 pair of shoes in my car which are somewhat wearable for short durations and extra sleeve all the time as I never know when will I need them.
It is frustrating at times.
I was on 1 tab of Colchcine for 2 months, then reduced it to 1 tab every other day for next 2 months and now I am taking 1 tab every 3 days. The dosage has been very small in last 2 and half months. I am almost on the verge of stopping Colchicine….plan is another week if everything goes as planned.
cjeezy said:
Wow an increase of 20! Your rationale makes sense though. I've only tested at most 3-4X after a meal so logically there could be small windows of high levels that were missed.
Are these windows of high levels important? I guess what I am asking is – after every meal with high purine food, the SUA levels would go up shortly, probably much beyond 6. Could this cause urate buildup ad trigger gout?
Probably, one should not sleep for few hours after such high intake of purines so that the vampire bite while we are asleep does not find high enough uric acid and cold body to covnert them into urate crystals, hence triggering gout.
